Decoder

A Decoder mailbag episode addressing listener feedback on Nilay Patel's “software brain” video essay, the show’s ongoing coverage of AI and Big Tech backlash, surveillance reporting, and how the team approaches interviewing politicians ahead of the midterms. The conversation reflects on what makes the current wave of tech criticism distinct and how audience input shapes the show's editorial direction.

Sonos CEO Tom Conrad joins Nilay Patel to discuss the company's disastrous 2024 app redesign, the board's decision to replace then-CEO Patrick Spence, and the steps Conrad took as interim and permanent CEO to diagnose the issues and rebuild trust. The conversation goes deep into the internal decisions and strategy that turned the brand around.

New York Governor Kathy Hochul joins Decoder to discuss the state's aggressive tech policy agenda during an election year. The conversation covers New York's settlement with Meta over algorithmic feeds and the state's age verification requirements, efforts to combat 3D-printed ghost guns, the deployment of Flock surveillance cameras, and the contentious politics around building AI data centers. Hochul also defends the decision to enact the nation's first data center moratorium and details a state initiative using AI to analyze every existing New York regulation.

Nilay Patel interviews Hayden Field, The Verge's senior AI reporter, about a wave of executive departures at OpenAI. The conversation traces how these exits have consolidated power under OpenAI president and cofounder Greg Brockman, while CEO Sam Altman remains the public face. Field explains how Brockman has stepped into direct control of product teams and why this organizational shift may signal what OpenAI prioritizes next.

Decoder interviews Tim Cadogan, CEO of GoFundMe, about how the for-profit donation platform became essential infrastructure for medical bills, youth sports, and small business funding. The conversation covers Cadogan's takeover in March 2020, the company's decisions about what fundraising to allow, and why crowdfunding should not be treated as a replacement for government relief. It also addresses trust and moderation challenges, including impersonation claims and donations held in limbo.

Robert Hart, The Verge's London-based AI reporter, joins Decoder to discuss the rapid progress of AI models in advanced mathematics and the ensuing debate among mathematicians. In a short time, frontier models have become shockingly good at math, raising existential questions about the nature of the field.

Nilay Patel talks to Semafor editor-in-chief Ben Smith about the media company's profitable, events-driven business model — which generates about half of its revenue from live gatherings — and the ethical conflicts that pervade journalism today. Smith contrasts his experience at BuzzFeed during the social-media traffic boom with Semafor's diversified approach, now four years old and growing fast.

Decoder examines whether Google is losing the AI race after the company's major AI leadership shakeup. The Verge's Hayden Field joins to discuss the internal politics behind the reorganization and what it means for Google's consumer and cloud AI ambitions. The conversation draws on recent reporting, including the competing fates of Gemini and Google Cloud Platform and Demis Hassabis's 'foothills of the singularity' remark. It also looks at Sundar Pichai's stated vision for AI, search, and the future of the web. The central question is whether Google can coordinate its research and product teams well enough to stay competitive.

Lila Snyder returns to Decoder four years after her last appearance to discuss how she reshaped Bose. She sold the professional division, acquired luxury audio brands McIntosh Labs and Sonus faber, and began licensing Bose's core audio technology to other companies. The conversation also delves into the structural and cultural challenges of turning a hardware-first company into a software-driven one, and how Bose plans to remain competitive against giants like Apple's AirPods.

Gaby Del Valle, policy reporter at The Verge, discusses the growing bipartisan backlash against AI data centers. She highlights the unanimous vote by the Hernando County, Florida commission to impose a year-long moratorium on new data center construction, a move that reflects rare consensus across party lines. The episode explores how local concerns about energy use, land consumption, and economic benefits are uniting voters who typically align with big business.

Toni Schneider, the new CEO of Bluesky, talks with Nilay Patel about his vision for the decentralized social platform after taking over from Jay Graber, who moved to chief innovation officer. The conversation explores how a change in leadership signals new priorities for the growing network. The title suggests a desire to keep Bluesky open and inclusive rather than becoming an isolated bubble, a theme that fits Decoder’s focus on strategy and decision-making.

This Decoder episode is a rebroadcast of The Gray Area, where host Sean Illing speaks with Charlie Warzel of The Atlantic about the state of the internet in 2026. They examine how the web increasingly feels overrun by non‑human actors — bots, algorithms, and manufactured engagement — and discuss the core ideas from Warzel’s reporting, including the dead internet theory, the Geese band psyop, and the growing feeling that users have lost control of their online experience. The conversation draws on investigations from outlets like New York Magazine, The New Yorker, and Fast Company, painting a picture of an internet where authenticity and trust are in steep decline.

Evan Smith, cofounder and CEO of Altana, returns to discuss how Trump's tariff policies have failed to bring manufacturing jobs back to the US despite promises. The episode explores the chaotic global trade environment, the real-world impact of tariff whack-a-mole policymaking, and how geopolitical instability (including conflict in Iran) is reshaping international relations and supply chains. Smith and host Nilay Patel dig into the disconnect between tariff rhetoric and economic outcomes.

Hayden Field, The Verge's senior AI reporter, breaks down Apple's major trade secrets lawsuit against OpenAI. The case centers on allegations that OpenAI stole hardware secrets, and could have serious implications for OpenAI's hardware ambitions, forthcoming IPO, and public reputation. Field consulted with IP and trade secret law specialists to assess the legal jeopardy.

Jill Lepore discusses her new book, The Rise and Fall of the Artificial State, which argues that the drive to measure, quantify, and systematize is a dehumanizing force. She connects this historical pattern to the current AI backlash, seeing it as a necessary corrective that forces societies to reconsider the values embedded in technology. Lepore traces how data-driven governance flattens human complexity into artificial structures that undermine agency and meaning.

Vergecast host Nilay Patel interviews Bart Butler, CTO of Proton, about how the encrypted productivity company structures its ownership and product architecture to align incentives with user privacy protection. The conversation covers Proton's challenges from government pressures in Switzerland, the EU, and the US—including demands to unmask users and implement surveillance capabilities—and the fundamental tension between protecting users and complying with state authority.

Xinzhou Wu, head of Nvidia's automotive division, discusses the competitive landscape of autonomous vehicles and electric cars. The conversation covers Nvidia's Level 4 autonomous driving partnerships with Hyundai, Nissan, BYD, and Geely, and addresses whether Tesla's vision-only approach to full self-driving can work without LiDAR sensors. Wu explains Nvidia's strategy for supplying the AI infrastructure that powers next-generation vehicles across the industry.

Comcast announced it is splitting into two independent companies, separating its broadband business from NBCUniversal. Peter Kafka joins to discuss the 15-year history of this content-plus-pipes strategy, why combining distribution and entertainment has repeatedly failed, and what the breakup means for the future of the media and broadband industries.

Ali Berman and Raina Penchansky, who lead the Creators Division at United Talent Agency, discuss how top talent agencies identify and develop creator talent, build sustainable creator businesses, and navigate the $250B influencer economy. The conversation covers talent scouting, the creator cliff, platform diversification, and how traditional agencies are competing with specialized creator platforms.

Amy Lanzi, CEO of Digitas North America, spoke with Decoder at Cannes Lions 2026 about the transformation of marketing. The conversation covered the impact of AI, the rise of the creator economy, and why she believes the traditional Chief Marketing Officer role is dying. Lanzi described how advertising dollars are shifting and what marketing leadership must become.

Roger Dahle, CEO of Weber Blackstone, returns to Decoder five years after his first appearance as CEO of Blackstone. This episode explores the 2024 merger of Blackstone and Weber, two giants of outdoor cooking, and Dahle's role in integrating the companies. The conversation covers the operational, cultural, and strategic challenges of uniting a viral TikTok brand with a legacy grill institution. It's a full-circle moment for the show's annual grill series, tracing the evolution of the category and its leadership.

Joanna Stern interviews Ford CEO Jim Farley about the company's electric vehicle strategy. The conversation covers the impact of Trump-era tariffs, competing with Chinese EV manufacturers, and Ford's decision to move away from Apple CarPlay in favor of its own software. Farley shares insights on the challenges and gambles involved in building affordable EVs.

Decoder's Nilay Patel talks with Patreon CEO Jack Conte about the existential threats facing creators, as AI and platform shifts steal their content and decimate reach and revenue. Conte explains how Patreon is undergoing major changes to help artists survive in this new internet landscape. The conversation touches on the fundamental challenges of building a business that depends on platforms you don't control.

Hayden Field, senior AI reporter for The Verge, discusses the sudden shutdown of Anthropic's Fable 5 and Mythos 5 models following a government order. The episode walks through the timeline of how the ban happened, the scramble to understand what triggered it, and the implications for how AI regulation and export controls are being enforced in real time.

Adam Bry, CEO of Skydio, discusses the autonomous drone industry at a pivotal moment: US government restrictions on Chinese DJI drones, expanding military and law enforcement adoption, and Skydio's pivot from consumer to enterprise/government markets. The conversation covers regulatory dynamics, the competitive landscape, and Bry's argument that American drone dominance enhances national security and public safety.

Nilay Patel shares a conversation between Peter Kafka and Condé Nast CEO Roger Lynch originally from the Channels podcast. Lynch discusses how Condé Nast is preparing for a future where search traffic becomes negligible—what Patel calls "Google Zero." The episode explores how major media companies are rethinking their distribution strategy, the role of AI in publishing, and the shifting influence of the creator economy on traditional media.

Decoder host Nilay Patel talks with Mustafa Suleyman, CEO of Microsoft AI, about the company's approach to training new models, his criticisms of Anthropic's language around Claude's consciousness, the shifting Microsoft-OpenAI relationship, and the growing political and public pushback against AI. Suleyman also weighs in on whether current consumer AI products are compelling enough to overcome skepticism.

Ryan Mac, technology reporter at The New York Times and co-author of Character Limit, discusses the impending SpaceX IPO—a $2 trillion offering that represents one of the largest public offerings in history. The episode examines how regulatory rules designed to protect market fairness are being bent or broken in the process, and how X (formerly Twitter) is structurally embedded within SpaceX, creating unprecedented concentration of power and wealth in Elon Musk's hands.

Recording Academy CEO Harvey Mason Jr explains how generative AI has become "omnipresent" in music production, fundamentally reshaping how music is created, recorded, and consumed. The conversation explores what kinds of AI tools musicians are actually using, the quality of AI-generated music, and the critical challenge facing the Grammys and the industry: how to identify and protect human musicians while the technology rapidly evolves. Mason Jr reflects on how much has changed since 2024, when AI's impact on music was theoretical—now it's operational and urgent.

Wassym Bensaid, Rivian's chief software officer and co-CEO of the RV Tech joint venture with Volkswagen, discusses the automotive software strategy that prioritizes AI-powered voice assistants and touchscreen interfaces over physical buttons and Apple CarPlay integration. The conversation explores how Rivian is differentiating itself through software-first design, the partnership dynamics with Volkswagen, and the company's conviction that traditional in-car controls are becoming obsolete.

Sundar Pichai, CEO of Google, discusses the company's strategic pivot toward AI at Google I/O 2026. The conversation covers Google Zero (a new product strategy), tensions with YouTube creators over AI remixing, the shifting nature of search, and what Demis Hassabis means by being at the "foothills of the singularity." This is the fifth annual Decoder interview with Pichai, making it a barometer for how Google's leadership thinks about AI's role in its future.

Liz Lopatto, a Verge reporter who covered the Musk v. Altman trial for a month, joins Decoder to break down the lawsuit nominally about OpenAI's conversion to for-profit status. The episode argues the suit was really about Elon Musk's personal grievance with Sam Altman and OpenAI's success without him. In a courtroom filled with unreliable, self-interested parties, the trial accomplished little beyond exposing the dysfunction and infighting at the top of the AI industry.

BuzzFeed co-founder and CEO Jonah Peretti explains his decision to sell the struggling company to Byron Allen, who becomes CEO while Peretti takes on a new role as president of BuzzFeed AI. The episode explores the challenges facing digital media companies in an algorithmic platform-dominated landscape and how BuzzFeed's restructuring signals a bet on the future of AI-generated content.

Brendan Ballou, founder of the Public Integrity Project and author of When Companies Run the Courts, discusses the rise of forced arbitration clauses in consumer contracts. These hidden terms strip people of their right to sue companies in court, instead forcing disputes into private arbitration systems where companies hold structural advantages. The episode explores how we arrived at this system, traces culpability to Supreme Court decisions (notably Antonin Scalia's), and examines potential paths for legal and legislative reform.

Joanna Stern, co-founder of The Verge and former Wall Street Journal technology columnist, discusses her new book 'I Am Not a Robot' and her decision to leave her prestigious role to start New Things, her own media company. The episode explores what Stern learned after going all-in on automation and living with robot technology, examining the gap between what tech companies promise and what people actually want.

Decoder’s Nilay Patel revisits a fall 2025 episode examining how generative AI is reshaping education. The show explores widespread student use of AI tools, shifting attitudes toward cheating, new research on cognitive impacts, and how children learn from conversational agents. It’s a comprehensive look at the tension between AI’s potential as a learning aid and the risks it poses to academic integrity and deep learning.

Uber CEO Dara Khosrowshahi returns to Decoder to discuss the company's expansion into a broader travel platform, adding hotel booking and personal shopping. He outlines the vision of an 'everything app' and how far the company thinks that concept can stretch. The conversation also addresses mounting pressure from AI chatbots that could bypass the Uber app entirely, prompting Uber to strengthen its grip on the user experience layer.

Decoder producers answer listener questions with host Nilay Patel in the guest seat. The team reflects on recent controversial episodes—including interviews with the CEOs of Superhuman and Puck—discusses the show’s approach to covering AI, and explores what makes an interview succeed or fail on the show. The conversation offers a behind‑the‑scenes look at Decoder’s editorial process and how audience feedback shapes the program.

Jennifer Scanlon, CEO of UL Solutions, discusses how UL—the 100+ year old safety certification body—evolved from standardizing fire and electrical safety to become a critical gatekeeper in the modern tech era. As IoT, AI, and connected devices proliferate, UL faces new challenges: counterfeit certifications, geopolitical tensions around testing labs, and a tech industry that often treats safety standards as obstacles rather than safeguards.

Nilay Patel introduces the concept of 'software brain'—a mindset that frames everything as algorithms, databases, and loops. He argues that this way of thinking, which has been turbocharged by AI, explains why the tech industry's excitement about artificial intelligence increasingly clashes with public dislike. The episode examines how an engineered worldview, once responsible for modern progress, may now be widening the gap between what Silicon Valley builds and what everyday people actually want.

Melanie Perkins discusses Canva's dramatic pivot from a design platform with AI tools to an AI platform with design tools. The company is moving aggressively into enterprise, competing not just with Adobe's Creative Suite but with AI-native companies like Anthropic and Meta that are launching competing AI design platforms. The conversation explores whether Canva can position itself as the unified workspace for AI-powered creation.

Investigative journalist Ronan Farrow discusses his New Yorker feature with Andrew Marantz examining OpenAI CEO Sam Altman's trustworthiness and public statements. The piece documents patterns of inconsistency and misrepresentation in Altman's communications about OpenAI's capabilities, safety priorities, and business model. Farrow explains his reporting methodology, the significance of these findings for the AI industry, and why corporate credibility matters when companies shape technological futures.

Sony's TV partnership with TCL and the restructuring of the TV industry as hardware margins collapse and software/streaming become the primary revenue models.

OpenAI reportedly exploring advertising as a revenue model. Patel analyzes what this means for AI objectivity and whether AI-powered ads would be more or less trustworthy than search ads.

Patel and David Pierce rank Apple's 50 best products ever, debating which innovations truly changed the tech landscape versus which were incremental improvements.

Samsung's Galaxy S26 launches with a Privacy Display that limits screen visibility to the user and agentic AI features in Android that can take actions on your behalf.

Live CES interview with Razer CEO Min-Liang Tan about Project Ava, an AI companion with a physical presence as an anime hologram — and whether AI companions are the future of consumer tech.

Nilay Patel answers audience questions about his decision-making framework, revealing the 'Decoder questions' he asks every CEO guest and applying them to his own career.

Examining the gap between AI company valuations and revenue. Anthropic and OpenAI are expected to IPO in 2026, but can they justify their valuations with actual revenue?

Hayden Field profiles Anthropic's societal impacts team — a small group tasked with ensuring one of the world's most powerful AI companies does not cause irreversible harm.

YouTube is now the most-watched streaming service on TVs. Patel examines what this means for the streaming wars, content creation, and the future of video entertainment.

Stack Overflow CEO details the company's existential response to ChatGPT: pivoting from community Q&A to enterprise SaaS, banning AI-generated answers, and building AI Assist.

Cisco CEO Chuck Robbins explains how the networking giant is transforming to serve the AI era, from data center networking to AI-specific security and observability.

The story of how Obsidian's most passionate community member became its CEO, and what this reveals about community-led software companies in the AI era.

Data scientist Hannah Ritchie presents evidence that climate progress is actually happening — clean energy adoption is accelerating, emissions are peaking — but the positive story does not spread.

A media executive discusses how AI is disrupting publishing: AI-generated summaries reduce click-through, AI writing tools commoditize content, and AI search answers replace article visits.

Deep dive into the legal battles between AI companies and content creators. The New York Times v. OpenAI and similar cases will determine whether AI training on copyrighted content is fair use.

Hands-on with the Nintendo Switch 2. Patel examines how Nintendo consistently succeeds by designing for a different environment than Sony and Microsoft.

FCC Chairman Brendan Carr discusses the regulatory agenda for tech and telecom, from AI regulation to net neutrality to spectrum allocation.

The Supreme Court hears arguments on the TikTok ban. Patel analyzes the legal, technological, and geopolitical dimensions of the most significant platform regulation case in US history.

Creator Hank Green guest-hosts a conversation with Dropout CEO Sam Reich about building a subscription video platform, the creator economy's sustainability challenges, and why premium unscripted content can compete with Hollywood.

Canva CEO Melanie Perkins discusses the company's transformation from a design platform with AI tools to an AI platform with design tools. Covers enterprise strategy, pricing backlash, and competing with Adobe.

Tubi CEO Anjali Sud explains why the free, ad-supported streaming model may be more sustainable than subscription streaming. Discusses competing against Netflix and TikTok for attention.

Patel examines the controversy around Grok's ability to generate non-consensual intimate deepfakes and the broader question of platform liability for AI-generated harmful content.

Cisco CEO Chuck Robbins discusses how AI is transforming enterprise networking, the infrastructure demands of AI data centers, and Cisco's $28B acquisition of Splunk for observability.

Puck CEO Sarah Personette explains the subscription media model built around star reporters who write newsletters as part of a bundle. Discusses competing with Substack, recruiting talent, and making media sustainable.

Netflix co-CEO Greg Peters discusses the ad tier reaching 40M subscribers, AI's role in content recommendation and production, and why Netflix's gaming strategy is a long-term bet.

Sundar Pichai discusses Google's AI strategy after I/O 2024, the transition from search to AI-first products, Gemini's capabilities, and how Google balances innovation with the risk of disrupting its own search business.

Nilay Patel breaks down the legislation requiring ByteDance to sell TikTok or face a US ban. Covers the legal arguments, First Amendment implications, national security concerns, and what happens next.

Alex Heath guest-hosts a conversation with Mark Zuckerberg about Meta's AI pivot, the future of mixed reality, and Zuckerberg's personal evolution from social media CEO to hardware and AI leader.

Pulitzer Prize-winning journalist Ronan Farrow discusses his New Yorker investigation into Sam Altman, the challenges of reporting on AI companies, and why the AI industry needs external accountability.

Patel examines the gap between AI company valuations and actual revenue. Argues that most AI startups face a monetization cliff: impressive demos but no clear path to sustainable business models.

Razer CEO Min-Liang Tan discusses the gaming hardware market at CES 2024, the convergence of gaming and productivity hardware, and how Razer is expanding beyond its core gaming audience.