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The Ezra Klein Show · September 15, 2026 · 1h 5m

The ‘But China!’ Dilemma Driving the A.I. Race

Matt Sheehan
Show Notes

The episode examines the recurring “What about China?” objection that dominates American artificial intelligence policy debates. Chinese A.I. models are only slightly behind American ones, so a unilateral slowdown feels like handing away leadership in a critical technology. Guest Matt Sheehan, a Carnegie Endowment senior fellow, explains how China is interpreting the American A.I. debate and what each country’s constraints are. The conversation frames the situation as a prisoner’s dilemma and asks whether the two countries could strike a deal. Sheehan’s work is aimed at building a foundation for that coordination.

This summary was generated from show notes and public descriptions, not from a full transcript review. Details may contain inaccuracies.

Highlights

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The 'But China!' Wall
American conversations about regulating A.I. repeatedly hit the question of China, with the fear that slowing down U.S. development will let China take the lead in a critical technology.
ClaudeChatGPTGemini
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Chinese A.I. Models Are Slightly Behind
Sheehan notes that Chinese A.I. models currently sit just behind American ones, which sharpens the competitive stakes.
ClaudeChatGPTGemini
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The Prisoner's Dilemma Between A.I. Superpowers
The United States and China are described as facing a prisoner's dilemma: each has an incentive to race ahead even when both might benefit from coordination on safe A.I.
ClaudeChatGPTGemini
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Laying a Foundation for U.S.-China A.I. Coordination
Sheehan is working to interpret each country's A.I. debate for the other and lay groundwork for future coordination between the United States and China.
ClaudeChatGPTGemini

References

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The Transpacific Experiment: How China and California Collaborate and Compete for Our Future — Matt Sheehan (2019) — Guest's book on U.S.-China technology collaboration and competition
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The Adolescence of Technology — Dario Amodei — Mentioned during the conversation
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Country Driving — Peter Hessler — Guest book recommendation
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From the Soil — Fei Xiaotong — Guest book recommendation
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On Beauty — Zadie Smith — Guest book recommendation
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