Is the World Getting Uglier?

Ezra Klein talks with designer and educator Debbie Millman about the recurring worry that the modern world is becoming drabber and uglier. The conversation begins with the modern right's explicit theory of beauty — visible in President Trump's gilded Oval Office and an executive order requiring classical and traditional styles for certain federal buildings — and asks whether the left has any competing answer. Millman brings decades of experience from brand design, including redesigned logos for Burger King, 7 Up, and Häagen-Dazs, and from her podcast Design Matters. The episode explores the sameness of new cars, the drabness of apartment blocks, and the spread of "greige" in homes and fashion.