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Against the Rules · October 21, 2025 · 26m

The Short Sellers

Michael Lewis sits down with Greg Lippmann and Steve Eisman, the investors made famous by The Big Short, to trace the origins of their suspicion about the subprime mortgage market. They recount the specific data points and anomalies that set off alarm bells, how they perceived one another in the uncertain months before the crash, and what it felt like to be right while everyone else was wrong. The conversation reveals the behind-the-scenes dynamic between two of the key figures who bet against the housing bubble, exploring the loneliness of the contrarian trade and the psychological grit required to hold an unpopular position.

This summary was generated from show notes and public descriptions, not from a full transcript review. Details may contain inaccuracies.

Curious

Lewis and his guests illustrate how the incentives throughout the mortgage supply chain made disaster nearly inevitable.

Highlights

When the short sellers first suspected the market was rotten
Lewis asks Lippmann and Eisman to pinpoint the moment—or the evidence—that led them to believe the subprime mortgage market was fundamentally unsound.
How Lippmann and Eisman perceived each other before the crash
The conversation illuminates the mutual wariness and eventual respect between the two protagonists of The Big Short.
The psychological toll of betting against the consensus
Lippmann and Eisman reflect on the emotional and professional costs of holding a deeply unpopular position.
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